>> ERIC: IT'S BEEN A QUIETER POLITICAL WEEK IN MINNESOTA WITH THE LEGISLATURE ON BREAK, BUT THE PLETHORA OF POLITICAL NEWS OUT OF WASHINGTON, D.C.

MEANS WE ARE GOING TO END THE HOUR TONIGHT WITH A TRIO OF POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSORS.

LARRY JACOBS HEADS UP THE CENTER FOR POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE AT THE U OF M'S HUMPHREY SCHOOL.

THE U OF M IS ALSO WHERE KATHRYN PEARSON TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE.

ONE OF HER AREAS OF EXPERTISE IS CONGRESS.

HERE, TOO, DAVID SCHULTZ, TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY AND IS ALSO AN ADJUNCT LAW PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ST.

THOMAS.

14TH AMENDMENT.

1868.

GRANTS CITIZENSHIP TO ALL PERSONS BORN OR NATURALIZED INCLUDING FORMERLY ENSLAVED PERSONS AND ENSURES EQUAL PROTECTIONS UNDER THE LAW FOR ALL PERSONS.

130 YEARS OF CASE LAW.

THE PRINTED PAGE SEEMS VERY SPECIFIC.

>> IT IS VERY SPECIFIC AT THIS POINT.

WE GOT TEXT.

WE GOT 130 YEARS OF PRECEDENT.

WE'LL LISTEN TO THE SUPREME COURT ORAL ARGUMENTS THE OTHER DAY.

EVEN TRUMP'S PRESENCE IN COURT IS NOT GOING TO MOVE THEM.

8 TO 1, THE LANGUAGE IS PRETTY CLEAR ON THIS ONE.

AND THE REPERCUSSIONS IF THE COURT WOULD GO IN THE OTHER DIRECTION WOULD CREATE AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF CHAOS.

HE GETS TO USE IT AS A CAMPAIGN ISSUE NO MATTER WHAT.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS?

>> CERTAINLY IT IS THE CASE THAT IMMIGRATION IS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.

BUT ITH METRO SURGE IN MINNEAPOLIS AND CERTAINLY OTHER CRITICISMS AND PROBLEMS WITH I.C.E., YOU KNOW, THOSE NUMBERS ON IMMIGRATION HAVE REALLY GONE DOWN AND SEM DMEAMS SOME AREAS EVEN HAVE AN EDGE.

AND SO I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE RATIONALE FOR TRYING TO GET HIS NUMBERS BACK UP ON IMMIGRATION, BUT IT'S COMPLICATED AND I THINK WE'LL HEAR FROM BOTH SIDES IN THE CAMPAIGN.

>> I COMPLETELY AGREE.

IF YOU GO BACK TO THE REDISTRICTING DEBATE WHICH WE WERE GOING THROUGH JUST A FEW MONTHS GO, ONE OF THE BIG CASES WAS IN TEXAS AND TWO OF THOSE DISTRICTS THAT WERE REDISTRIBUTED AND REPUBLICANS WERE SO CONFIDENT THEY'RE GOING TO WIN THEM, IT'S BASED ON THE 2024 RESULTS, BASE IS A ED ON ON THE HISPANIC VOTE.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THOSE HISPANICS VOTERS ARE BEING TURNED OFF ABOUT.

WHAT HAPPENED IN MINNEAPOLIS AND TRYING TO DO AWAY WITH BIRTH RIGHT WHICH YOU KNOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO RUN.

>> Eric: ARE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT THE JUSTICES ARE GOING O DO JUST BY MONTHING -- >> THE INTERESTING QUESTION WILL BE, WILL THEY DECIDE IT ON THE BASIS OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OR ON STATUTORY LAW?

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

>> SO CONSTITUTIONAL LAW WILL BE -- SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY -- MORE PERMANENT, BUT ACTUALLY THE COURT IS WILLING TO SAY THAT BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION, WE WILL PREFER TO DO IT ON STATUTORY GROUNDS AND THEREFORE CONGRESS DISAGREES.

SO THE QUESTION BECOMES, WHICH ARE THEY GOING TO DO?

ARE THEY GOING TO DO IT ON STATUTORY AND THEN PUNT ON THE CONSTITUTIONAL AND WAIT FOR THE CASE TO COME BACK OR JUST DO IT ON CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT NOW SO THE ISSUE DOESN'T COME BACK?

>> THERE WAS A STRING OF DECISIONS BY THE COURT, PARTICULARLY ON THE NATIONAL INJUNCTIONS AND OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR THAT THIS COURT WAS JUST GOING TO ROLL OVER FOR DONALD TRUMP.

WELL, WE'VE HAD TARIFFS AND NOW WE'VE HAD THIS ORAL ARGUMENT.

IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS A COURT THAT ON BIG ISSUES IS STANDING UP TO DONALD TRUMP AND IF YOU GO BACK TO THE FIRST TERM, OF COURSE, HE HAD A TERRIBLE LOSING RECORD.

>> SAY, THE EXECUTIVE ORDER ON VOTING THAT WAS SIGNED, WAS THAT AN ATTEMPT TO SIGN THAT ORDER TO SHAKE LOOSE THE S.A.V.E.

ACT IN THE SENATE.

>> THE S.A.V.E.

ACT IS GOING NOWHERE, SO HAT WAS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WAY OF CONTINUING THIS ISSUE.

BUT THAT IS BEING MET WITH A LOT OF COURT CHALLENGES.

THUNE IS UNWILLING TO DO AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER AS ARE SEVERAL OTHER REPUBLICANS, AND SO DESPITE THE PRESSURE FROM THE PRESIDENT, EALLY SORT OF ALMOST UNPRECEDENTED RESSURE ON A SENATE LEADER TO DO AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER AND SORT OF HOLD UP LEGISLATION UNTIL THE S.A.V.E.

ACT WOULD ASS, IT JUST DIDN'T WORK.

THE HOUSE WENT ALONG WITH IT BUT THE SENATE CARES ABOUT MINORITY RIGHTS AND WERE UNWILLING TO DO THIS.

>> CAN I ADD ONE MORE THING TO IT ALSO TOO IS THAT A LOT OF THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO ARE REPUBLICANS GOT ELECTED WITH LOTS OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS AND LOTS OF DISTANT VOTING AT THIS POINT.

AND I JUST SAY THAT BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF HARD FOR TRUMP TO SAY, LOTS OF VOTER FRAUD, AND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE PUSHING BACK AND SAYING, YEAH, BUT WE HAVE CONTROL OF CONGRESS AND THE PROCESS AT THIS POINT.

SO I THINK THERE'S ALL KINDS OF SELF-INTERESTED REASONS BECAUSE I THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE LEARNED HOW TO ALSO USE EARLY VOTING IN A LOT OF THESE PROVISIONS AND HAVE CAUGHT UP TO THE DEMOCRATS.

>> THERE'S DEFINITELY THIS POLITICAL EDGE.

THERE'S THE CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE POWER THAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO CONGRESS.

PRESIDENT HAS NO ROLE HERE.

BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WHICH IS THERE IS A LOGISTICAL ISSUE.

RUNNING AN ELECTION IS VERY TIME CONSUMING.

IT IS AN ENORMOUS OPERATION.

AND IT INVOLVES OVER 8,000 LOCAL AND STATE ELECTION JURISDICTIONS.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ELECTION WORKERS.

AND SO THIS IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO, LIKE, SNAP HIS FINGERS AND GET, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTIONS AND VOTER ROLLS BEING SET UP AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, IT'S AN IMAGINARY IDEA.

IT'S JUST IMPOSSIBLE.

>> AND THE THAT POSTAL SERVICE IS GOING TO BE INVOLVED.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST UNWORKABLE.

>> THERE IS NOT A FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE'RE NOT LIKE OME FOREIGN COUNTRIES WHICH HAVE, LIKE, A NATURAL ELECTIONS BUREAU THAT RUNS EVERYTHING.

AS LARRY IS POINTING OUT HERE, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY DECENTRALIZED SYSTEM.

>> ARTICLE I, SECTION 4, STATES CONTROL ELECTIONS.

>> Eric: I DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE JOHN LENNON SINGING "IMAGINE," BUT ARE THE STARS LINING FOR SOME COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM?

>> NO, THEY'RE NOT.

I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO DEAL -- WE'RE ON DAY 47 OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SHUT DOWN AND T.S.A.

AGENTS ARE BEING PAID, BUT ONLY THE -- THE COAST GUARD IS NOT.

OTHER D.H.S.

EMPLOYEE RAZE NOT.

AND SOS THAT GOING TO BE DEALT WITH IN A RECONCILIATION BILL BECAUSE THAT CANNOT BE FILIBUSTERED IN THE SENATE.

BUT THAT'S GOING TO BE A HEAVY LIFT WITH JUST THE REPUBLICANS, SO I DON'T THINK ANY MEANINGFUL IMMIGRATION WILL BE PART OF THAT.

>> Cathy: DO YOU AGREE?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, WE'RE AT A LEVEL WHERE CONGRESS IS REALLY NOT OPERATING.

IT -- THIS IS MAYBE NE OF THE GOVERNANCE CRISES WE'VE HAD.

AND WE'VE HAD OME SERIOUS ONES.

WITH DONALD TRUMP UNABLE TO KIND OF MARSHAL GOVERNING COALITIONS, YOU'VE GOT SOME RENEGADES IN THE HOUSE THAT'S JUST INCREDIBLY TIGHTLY DIVIDED.

NO, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE FILIBUSTER IN THE SENATE.

THIS IS A REALLY TREACHEROUS MOMENT.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, THE INCENTIVES ARE NOT LINING UP.

AGAIN, I'M GOING TO BE THE REALLY CYNICAL PERSON TODAY AND SAY THAT NEITHER THE DEMOCRATS NOR THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO FIX THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE.

YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT?

IF YOU FIX IT, YOU LOSE THE ISSUE TO RUN ON.

>> Cathy: SAY, HOW MUCH PUSHBACK DID YOU GET TO YOUR "STAR TRIBUNE" OP-ED PIECE ON FRAUD?

AND YOU PRETTY MUCH SAID -- IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING PIECE.

YOU PRETTY MUCH SAID THAT THE DFLERS LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

YOU KIND OF FAILED ON OVERSIGHT.

AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE MESS IN MINNESOTA.

>> YEAH, IT'S THE LEGISLATURE.

A OT OF PEOPLE HAVE POINTED THE FINGER AT TIM WALZ, AND OKAY, MAYBE HE HAS A ROLE BUT I WENT AND LOOKED AT THE HEARINGS INVOLVING THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR.

AND THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR'S REPORTS.

AND THEY'RE JUST, OVER YEARS AND YEARS, THEY'RE POINTING TO THE VERY CONDITIONS THAT LED TO THE FRAUD WE'RE SEEING NOW AND THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES IN THE LEGISLATURE, ON THE DFL SIDE, WERE CONTINUALLY STONE-WALLING WHAT THE LEGISLATURE AUDITOR WAS BRINGING FORWARD.

YEAH, IT WAS VERY UNPOPULAR TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

BUT IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS YOU HAVE PROFESSORS AT UNIVERSITY, AND I TAUGHT WITH WALTER MONDALE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND THIS WAS A GUY WHO REALLY BELIEVED IN DATA, HE BELIEVED IN ACCOUNTABILITY, AND I THINK HE'D BE HORRIFIED IF HE WAS ALIVE TODAY AND AW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

SO YEAH, I'M TAKING SOME REAL HEAT ON IT.

BUT I'M OKAY.

I THINK WALTER MONDALE WOULD BE PROUD.

>> Eric: 30 SECONDS LEFT.

IS THE CONGRESS GOING ALONG WITH THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET WITH A 44% INCREASE IN DEFENSE SPENDING?

>> NO, THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET IS LWAYS JUST A BLUEPRINT, EVEN UNDER UNIFIED PARTY CONTROL, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THIS WILL BE A CAMPAIGN ISSUE THAT BOTH SIDES WILL RUN ON, IN ADDITION TO THE VIDEO COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP TALKED ABOUT THE STATES NEEDING TO PAY FOR DAYCARE AND OTHER SOCIAL SERVICES.

>> IN 50 YEARS UNDER THE CURRENT BUDGET SCHEME GOING BACK TO 1976, THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET HAS NLY BEEN MARG