One of the greatest beauties of a book, in my opinion, is that there's no passport needed to take you to the places you want to go or maybe never even knew existed.

Hi, I'm Holly Jackson, the host of Books by the River, and I'm here to navigate the conversation of those who draw the maps for some of the most interesting journeys that are bound in a book.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for Books by the River is brought to you by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

This program is supported by South Carolina Humanities, a not for profit organization inspiring, engaging, and enriching South Carolinians with programs on literature, history, culture, and heritage.

SC Humanities receives funding from the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Democracy demands wisdom.

Additional funding for Books by the River is provided by Visit Beaufort, Port Royal and Sea Islands and Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USC Beaufort.

Holly> And today we're speaking with Susan Boyer, author of a Carolina Tales series.

You have a lot to talk about.

Let's just dive right in.

Thanks, first of all, for joining us here for Books by the River.

Susan> Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I am delighted to be here.

Holly> Oh, great.

All right.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and how this whole writing thing began.

Susan> Well, I think I've been making up stories my whole life.

I just I have an overactive imagination.

I was always that child who had a book in my hand, who loved to go to the library and bring home a stack of books and, you know, would begged to go back the next week and get another stack.

So I've always loved books, and as a child I loved Nancy Drew and that was, she was my favorite fictional character, Nancy Drew.

I also like Trixie Belden, but, I always loved mysteries.

And so as I grew up, I was reading mysteries and, you know, thinking it would be really cool to write mysteries.

But, you know, publishing is sort of an intimidating career to embark upon, you know, initially.

You don't just go to college and get a degree and immediately have a steady income writing novels.

It doesn't work that way.

So my parents were really keen for me to, as they put it, get my mind on something sensible.

So I did, I learned to program, computers.

I did that for a while.

And then just basically, decided at some point that writing was the thing for me, and I needed to give that a try.

And, I've been doing it ever since, and I just love it.

I make up stories, I make things up and write them down.

<laughs> Holly> Now, there is a moment in your career that was really like a time of, okay, am I going to do this or not?

Tell us a little bit about that and kind of the encouragement that you had at home to make this thing happen.

Susan> So I had been programing computers, for a while and had sort of migrated into, the planning department for a retail clothing chain.

So I had been doing that for a while, and what I was doing was a little more specialized than programing computers, so I would have to relocate to get a similar job.

And that company went out of business, and we didn't want to relocate.

And so my husband, who knew I had dreamed of writing I had that novel in the drawer I'd been working on a little while as you can, but with kids and, you know, a job and everything, it just, it hadn't I had never really finished that novel.

So he said, why don't you give the writing thing a try?

And so I did, and I've never looked back, and I've just been having a really good time with it.

Holly> OK, so try to back up to whenever he actually said, "Why don't you give this a go?"

Were you scared?

Were you excited?

Were you a little bit of all those emotions?

Susan> I was so excited, because I was doing what I wanted to do, and it's like I had so much energy.

I would just get up in the morning, and I was just so excited.

I couldn't wait to write.

I'd pulled that novel out of the drawer, and that was actually my first novel that was published.

I think they say that writers, there are two kinds of writers; ones that write five novels before the first one is published.

You know, they practice for a while, and then there are those that write that first novel five times, and that was me I had written and rewritten and polished and and so my first novel, was the one I had been working on, off and on for many years and just pulled out and, and, polished it up.

And then once I finished it, I realized I'd never given any thought to "Now what?"

You know?

So then I had to figure out, okay, now, now what?

Now, how does one get a novel published?

And that was another whole adventure, with all kinds of detours and whatnot.

Holly> Whenever you say about that five times rewritten, was that your own editing?

Going back and saying, no, I don't like this, or did you have the help of someone else?

Susan> It was my own editing up to a point, but when I got to the point where I felt like, okay, I really want some objective feedback.

Not like my mom who thinks it's wonderful, you know, or my husband who thinks it's wonderful, or my friends who think it's great, or, you know, my other friends who've already read it five times.

But, so then I, partnered with a freelance editor, and she gave me some really good feedback and helped me to, you know, think about some things that I hadn't thought about before.

And, you know, I really am very, I love a good editor, you know, and, and it's like having a partner to talk to about your work.

And I love that.

And she was that kind of editor - the kind that would just help you make your book and your vision the very best version that it can be.

But she's not trying to take over and, you know, send you down paths you don't want to go and, and, so that was a good experience for me.

Holly> Now, when you did that first book, was there any time along the way that you thought, what am I doing?

Maybe I made the wrong choice?

Susan> Actually, no.

I was just always so happy to be on that journey, you know?

And, it took me a while, you know, to get the first book published, but, it it was well worth it.

I'm very happy with, with the journey.

Holly> All right, let's talk about the series.

Why you why you go for a series?

And the latest book you have.

Susan> Okay.

So I like reading the series.

So that's what I'm drawn to write.

I enjoy the experience of getting to know characters and having this fictional place to go back to and revisit characters, like going back to see family.

And I wanted to create that for readers.

I wanted them to have that experience of being able to go back to my fictional world and visit those characters again.

So I'm drawn to a series for for a lot of reasons, but but for I think that's probably the main one.

And this, this series, the Carolina Tales series is actually my second series, and this is the second book in the series, the Sullivan's Island Supper Club.

The first one was Big Trouble on Sullivan's Island.

And both are mysteries.

The first one features a private investigator, Hadley Cooper, and the second one actually features the women of the Sullivan's Island Supper Club who are Hadley's friends.

And so the story is told from four different points of view, from four different women who are members of the supper club, but none of them actually detectives.

Holly> Okay, so tell me about the emotional attachment to writing this series.

Any series that you write and whenever it's, you know, it's at that end, is it a feeling of accomplishment or do you kind of feel sad that it's ending and you're letting go?

Susan> It's kind of both.

And actually, my first series, I haven't really committed to letting that go.

I think I may go back and revisit those characters because I miss them, and my readers tell me that I miss them.

So I may go back and revisit that series.

It's hard, you know, it's like, leaving behind good friends, you know?

So.

But also, you know, you want to feel like at a certain point, I don't want to be one of those writers who just keeps writing the series well after I should have set it aside and gone on to something different.

So there's a balance I think you have to find.

Holly> Do you ever get so connected to a character that you have to remind myself, okay, this person is not real?

Susan> Actually, yes.

That that that's happened to me a time or two.

And I think that's because so much of me goes into my characters, you know, and I guess every writer's that way.

Holly> That be a sign of a good thing, though, even though you might feel a little nuts at the time, whenever you realize, hey, this person doesn't isn't going to walk in the room in a minute.

Susan> Right.

Holly> All right.

Tell me your writing process.

Susan> So when I'm actively writing, when I'm developing a book, I'll start with usually a spreadsheet and I'm a plotter.

I have to know where I'm headed.

And I start with, there's always a crime.

So who did what to who and why?

I know that from the beginning.

And then I create a spreadsheet and I go back, and I have one line for every chapter how this is going to be solved, how we're going to work it out.

And once I have that outline, then I start writing and I'll start maybe at 9:00 in the morning with my second cup of coffee, and just write until there's no more words in me for that day.

And then the next day, I start by reading everything I wrote the day before and editing it.

So by the time I finish the first draft, it's actually already been edited once.

Holly> It seems very methodical.

I'm very interested in how you describe that because I haven't heard that before.

I've heard people talk about walking in the door, closing it and from 9 to 5 or whatever, they give this time where they're just writing and kind of pounding away at the keyboard.

But the way you do this outline, I'm wondering if there's any connection to that computer programmer back in the day.

Susan>I think there is actually, I think the part of my brain that enjoyed programing computers enjoys the logic problems that are mysteries.

I think it's the same kind of thing.

Holly> Very neat.

All right.

I've noticed from just kind of, looking around on your social media that you seem to really enjoy the connection with the readers.

Susan> I do.

Holly> Tell me about those events.

And they look they look really nice and fun and a lot of great conversation, but just kind of talk about that experience and what it's like, even when you're gathering with, 10 or 12 people.

Susan> I really enjoy the experience of talking to readers of meeting them in person and just hearing what they have to say about the book and how they relate to the characters and what they think.

And I do that a lot in person.

I do a lot of live events.

We just had a launch party, last night for the latest book, and I do, a certain number of events for every book, and I'll do book clubs.

So some of them are small and intimate, and then some of them are big.

They're ticketed luncheons for, you know, 100 or whatever.

And I enjoy both.

I enjoy talking to people about the books, and I enjoy hearing what they have to say.

And I enjoy experiencing the book club format, you know, where everybody's talking about the book and they're talking about my characters as if they're their friends.

You know, that's that's really exciting.

Holly> Yeah, that must be cool, right?

All right.

So whenever you hear that feedback from readers, are you ever saying, okay, so that's what they like, that's the direction I need to go.

Susan> Oh, absolutely.

<laughs> Holly> Or is it more... absolutely?

So you're taking notes of what the people want?

Susan> And I'm even asking them, you know, like, for right now, I've had a lot of readers ask me about the characters in the first series.

And so, I did a little poll last night informally at the launch party, and I said, you know, which character would you most like to see in the next book?

You know?

Hadley Cooper or Liz Talbot, the character from the first series?

And it's about it's even, you know, it's both characters have their fans, I guess.

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that.

<laughs> And and several of them said you need to do both.

So I'm going to try, I think.

Holly> All right.

So, you have this really well organized plan of, of the writing, but does every anything ever come to you when you're least expecting it and you've just settled down for bed, those sort of times?

And how do you work with that?

Susan> Always.

That always happens.

And so what I do now is, I'll try to I used to try to write things out, but what I have learned is that even when I'm wide awake, my handwriting is so bad sometimes I can't read it.

Holly> Isn't that the worst?

"What was I trying to say?"

Susan> Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So, what I'll do is I will try to type a note into my iPhone, which sleeps right beside the bed.

And if I can't, if I'm just like, you know, can't work that out because I can't even get the light on or whatever, then I'll just do a "hey Siri," and, you know, say, make a note and she'll make a note and it's usually garbled and what all, but it's something that I can decipher the next morning, and just take it.

And because my notes are synced between and I love technology.

My desktop, my laptop, my iPad, my iPhone, my Apple Watch.

Everything's connected, you know, so I can always get Siri to make a note.

And then I collect those things in a folder on my desktop and, you know, so I lose much less than I used to.

Holly> Yeah, she's probably taking notes right now.

Susan> Oh no doubt.

She heard me say her name.

<both laugh> Holly> You know, whenever you talk about that technology, it must be just incredible and a time saver.

And I can't help but go back to, like, I'm sure you've seen the Pat Conroy legal pads and how much time that all must have taken.

Are you ever writing like that?

Ever?

Susan> Never.

Holly> Or you just try to avoid it as much as you can?

Susan> I never, you know, I wish that I did that because there's something romantic about it.

Holly> It is, seeing that print.

Susan> Yeah I would love to be able to do that.

But honestly, it's not very efficient for me because I'm constantly revising.

I mean, even when I'm just writing ideas, I'm constantly revising, I'm constantly editing myself.

And so I'm always backing up to, to retype something, and it's just so much more efficient for me to do it on the computer or the phone or the, you know, whatever.

Right.

Holly> Right.

All right Let's do a little focus on this latest book, the Sullivan's Island Supper Club.

I'm really drawn to the cover, and I was telling you how beautiful it was, and it's got a story, so let's hear it.

Susan> It does.

I actually was able to have a piece of artwork commissioned for this cover.

I had an artist do it, and, I have all the rights.

So it was it was an interesting concept.

I never thought I would be able to do that, but she basically painted it.

She gets credit on the copyright page, but I have all the rights I can do with it whatever I need to for, you know, for whatever.

So it's beautiful artwork.

Holly> Sure.

Making T-shirts, mugs, whatever you wanna do.

Susan> Yeah, and people are asking, you know, for those things because it's a beautiful piece of artwork.

So, I'm very happy.

It's my favorite book cover today.

Holly> I love it.

All right.

And then I want to talk about because this is interesting to me the time difference.

So like, we're talking about this book now, but to you this might have been 6 or 8 months ago.

I don't I don't know, I'm just guessing.

But, it's not as fresh to you, is there - Is it tough for you to, like, get back into it like we all need to be as readers?

Susan> It's easier when you're doing a series, because the book I'm working on now is the next book in the series.

So these characters are very fresh for me.

And I'm still working with those characters.

Holly> That helps.

Susan> It does help a lot.

It was.

That's not that difficult.

Now, if I switch to the other series, that will be difficult, yes, because I have spreadsheets of characters and my characters actually have family trees on Ancestry.com.

I have a hidden, private tree for each series that has all the characters.

Holly> Is this normal?

Susan> No, nothing about it is or, well, as far as I know, I've never heard of anyone else <laughs> Holly> I love whenever we like, woah, wait, this is the story.

Please tell me about this so you can take a ancestry thing of fictional people.

Susan> You can, yeah.

And I didn't know that I could do that, but I was using it for our families.

And then I thought, because when I was writing the first series, I was getting so many characters on this fictional island, and there were these five original families.

And I was thinking to myself, I want to make sure that three books in, I don't you know, intermarry cousins or something, and, Holly> This is brilliant!

Susan> And have a reader email me about it.

And I've got this horrible southern stereotype on the page and I can't get rid of it.

Holly> People would love that too.

Susan> So, yeah, but but I wanted to, to protect myself from that future me because I was going to write a lot of books in the series.

So I started creating these family trees for these characters, for these five families.

And I traced these fictional characters all the way back to, like, I don't know, 1700s or some crazy thing, because I wanted that history.

You know, that rich history.

And this helps me too, because ancestry doesn't know they're fictional characters, so the'll give me hints.

And then, it gives me all kinds of historical, like family names and names of, you know, people in this family And so some of the names that I've used, you know, I may have picked out of somebodies ancestry tree.

Holly> This is this is just wild and brilliant to me.

Susan> <laughs> Thank you!

Holly> And I really like that.

Because I was going to ask you, do you ever lose track of who someone is, and do you feel guilty?

Like, this was my person and I don't, I can't remember who, is this a brother or a cousin, or... Susan> I do not lose track.

Holly> No, you know them.

Susan> I have their family trees and they're in a spreadsheet.

Holly> Yeah.

So do you ever really have to refer to it?

Is it more of a confirmation, or?

Susan> It's a confirmation and it's getting the details fresh because I keep the details.

You know, I'll put them in the family tree.

Like, there's a note section.

And then also, I keep it in a spreadsheet just because I'm a little bit OCD and I have to have my spreadsheet.

I've worked with spreadsheets for a long time, so I have all the characters for each series.

And in that spreadsheet there's a link to their ancestry profile.

So I have all the information about these characters all in one place at my fingertips, and I can just click and go and see everything.

And it helps me with things like timelines, like, okay, they got married.

And you know, if I'm if I'm saying something, just an innocuous sentence like, you know, three weeks before she got married, she found out her cousin was in or whatever, you know, but then I don't want to say something wrong.

And so I need to see.

Okay.

What happened three weeks before she got married, you know?

When was that, and how did her life intersect with this other person during that timeline?

And, oh, wait, she didn't even live in the same city then.

You know, I need to change that.

So it helps me to keep that kind of detail straight Holly> Yeah, saves you a lot of time from digging.

And also, I know there are readers who love the "gotcha" and those kind of things, right?

Susna> You'll get emails, you'll get emails.

Holly> <laughs> But that's good!

That shows that they're reading and they're interested, and that they're that into it.

Susan> Oh, absolutely.

Holly> I would take that as a compliment.

Okay.

Tell me, if you can, a little bit about what's next.

Susan> Okay, so the next book is called Trouble's Turn to Lose and it is a Hadley Cooper book.

So the first book in the series, Big Trouble on Sullivan's Island, that was from Hadley Cooper's point of view.

She's the private investigator.

She's one of the group of friends that is the Sullivan's Island Supper Club.

So the next book, instead of being from four women's points of view, like, like this book, the next book is again from Hadley's point of view.

And that's Trouble's Turn to Lose.

Holly> Okay.

All right.

And how's that going so far?

Susan> So far, so good.

You know, I'm not finished with that book yet.

I need to be, but I'm working on it.

Right.

Holly> Great.

You know, I really like the way that this sensible, college degree is connecting with this creativity.

Isn't it cool?

You know, how that all connects?

All right, so tell me a little bit about your family.

Anybody interested in writing?

Did they catch the bug?

Susan> Not that I'm aware of.

It's interesting because both of my siblings are creative in different ways.

My brother's a musician, and he's very creative musically and my sister is a PhD, and she's extremely intelligent and she's creative in other ways.

But, neither of them, have had the writing bug.

My sister is a reader, but you know, and our kids, none of them have given any indication that they are interested.

Holly> It may come later, just like it did for you.

All right.

Tell me about you as a reader.

Are you reading things that are like yours, or are you trying to stay away from it with maybe a fear of it might be influential to you?

Susan>You know, I read voraciously and I read widely.

I read a lot of books that are set in the South Carolina lowcountry, and, and so some of them are, you know, at least regionally close.

I read a lot of mysteries.

And because my books are mysteries, I guess there's always the fear that, you know, something is going to be too similar or whatever, but I think that I just enjoy them too much.

I couldn't give mysteries up.

So I read a lot of mysteries, but I also read a lot of women's fiction, and I'm going through a big Catherine Center phase right now.

I'm reading everything she ever wrote, and it's just such a feel good thing for me, you know?

I just love the the happier, uplifting books.

A lot of people will say, you know, I need something deep now.

I want to read something historical.

I want to read something, you know, really, I don't know, serious literature or whatever.

And and most of that or much of it is, is deep and it makes you think.

But it's also kind of sad, you know, and it's, it's very serious.

And I found that I like my escapism pleasant.

So I read, I tend to read things that are a little lighter.

And even when I'm dealing with serious topics and even when there's a murder involved, I try to keep the tone light because I think we all need a break from all the deep, serious things, you know?

So I try to put humor in my books and just keep it a little lighter.

Holly> So I know it's been labeled as a beach read.

What is a beach read to you, and how do you like that label?

Susan> You know, I love the label because that's exactly what I want to be is a beach read.

But I think it can be different things to different people.

Some people like, you know, a thriller on the beach, some people like a women's fiction that's set on the beach.

And, and my books are one part mystery and one part women's fiction set on the beach.

It's kind of a genre mash up almost.

And so I enjoy sort of that, that lane, and it's kind of making my own lane I think.

Holly> I like that.

All Right.

Tell me what is like, the greatest compliment from a reader in terms of what their takeaway is.

Susan> I love it when readers or reviewers will tell me, that my books, that I have a distinctive southern voice.

I love being told I have a southern voice because, I'm aiming to be, you know, well, they'll say I have an authentic southern voice.

And I think that's true, and I take it as a high compliment, but I think it's not something I haven't, I can't take any credit for that because the southern voice is the only one I have.

<laughs> Holly> It is who you are because you're being real.

Susan> Yeah, that's who I am, and that's the only perspective I can write from.

But I do enjoy hearing that and I consider that high praise.

Holly> I think so too.

All right.

Well, it's time to wrap up already, but I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Susan> Oh, me too.

Holly> It's been a real pleasure so I appreciate you stopping by.

And we appreciate you stopping by here, too, on Books by the River.

It's always nice to have you tagging along with us.

We do know you have so many options out there of the ways that you can find your news and your entertainment.

And the fact that you stopped here with us today really means a lot.

So we appreciate it.

I'm Holly Jackson, your host of Books by the River.

We'll see you next time.

Susan> The morning after we hosted the Titanic of all neighborhood parties, Tucker and I were dead to the world, blissfully oblivious, at least for a few sweet hours as to how spectacularly my plans to sow the seeds of unity in our small, fractured town had failed.

I had tried my best to build bridges.

I did, and every one of them had blown up in my face.

Could there possibly be any bigger party fail than having to call the police, who hauled off several of your neighbors in handcuffs?

My fall meet-and-greet was an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions, is what I'm telling you.

Tucker and I slammed into wide awake the next morning when the doorbell went off, ringing urgently in rapid fire succession, like maybe the house was on fire and somebody was trying to save us all.

A woman was hollering and the dogs were barking, and we bolted straight up out of the bed.

It's a miracle we didn't both have massive heart attacks at that very moment.

We are, after all, in the grandparent demographic and at an elevated risk.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for Books by the River is brought to you by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

This program is supported by South Carolina Humanities, a not for profit organization inspiring, engaging, and enriching South Carolinians with programs on literature, history, culture, and heritage.

SC Humanities receives funding from the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Democracy demands wisdom.

Additional funding for Books by the River is provided by Visit Beaufort, Port Royal and Sea Islands and Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USC Beaufort.

♪ ♪